"Ukraine can go on." Thanks to the Armed Forces, the West believes in its own strength, but so far it is only secretly discussing the destruction of Putin's regime. Interview with Klimkin
- Everyone speaks about the counter -offensive of the Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv region - not only in military circles, but also in diplomatic ones. You have a lot of informal links with diplomats from Western countries. What are they talking about? How did their attitude to Ukraine and their forecasts after the Counfield of the Armed Forces have changed? Video of the day - the offensive was a surprise.
For Putin he became unpleasant, I would say, almost a fatal surprise, since the criticism that begins within Russian nationalists will sooner or later get the Russian leadership. And for our friends and partners, it was a very pleasant surprise. This is a very important positive emotion. It is important that it is now, on the eve of winter to show that Ukraine is not just holding on, but ready and can go.
It is very important that many of our friends (politicians, experts and business) now understand that this offensive is not only determination, courage, defending values, but also planning, strategy. And everyone is well aware that we have totally overdost the Russian regime. Therefore, this, of course, created a positive wind for us, in our sails.
It gives us the opportunity both politically and morally, emotionally to speak with our partners not just about more, but about qualitatively other weapons, about the help that we need critically, since economic stability will be no less important than military. Although there will be an opposite trend. In the sense of what they will say: “You are now in a steep position, you are now in a stronger position. Well, think about whether you tell you from this more powerful position for today.
” Of course, to speak, but not on Russian conditions, but on ours. "But think to start talking. " And I also hear such voices among journalists and some politicians in the West. - President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Ukraine is not ready to negotiate under the conditions of ultimatum. Many say it was a signal to the United States. A day earlier, when US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken was in Kiev, allegedly brought to Zelensk negotiation.
To which Zelensky gave a hint - a public response to hear all the Western partners that the time for negotiations has not come, because Kharkiv region is very little. - We need a strong position to talk. And a strong position means that negotiations should take place on our conditions. In no case on Russian. No one talks about it at all. This is the passing stage, which is forgotten.
But not on compromise, as Russia will now start to swing the situation, try to speak "and maybe a ceasefire, and we can start talking, and may fix, froze the situation, we will pull it. " Initially, in the winter, waiting for the determination of our partners to decrease, then waiting for internal political events in the United States and the beginning of the presidential campaign next year. Then playing that the administration may change in the states.
Putin is able to read geopolitics and always does it. Therefore, I believe that today there are no conditions for negotiations with the position of force with the Russian regime. - What is left in Putin's arsenal to try to force Ukraine to sit at the negotiating table and scare the event? -Putin can, first, reduce the supply of energy right now.
But here he was shot down, as the event seriously speaks about the restriction of the price of oil, petroleum products, and now began to talk about the restriction of gas price. It is such an energy "nuclear" weapon, but already from the event. This can start on December, when the European Union stops, first, to import Russian oil, and secondly, it stops all operations, ranging from insurance to tankers.
When I see all this data now that most Russian oil is transported by Greek tankers or who insure Russian oil, of course, I don't like it. And I, like you, would like it (the refusal to assist Russia - ed. ) Was happened yesterday. But, unfortunately, it happens slowly, but it happens. Well, Putin can go to raise the pond. Can make provocations in the Russian territory. It is also possible reality and I believe that there are no red lines for Putin now.
I even believe that there are no red lines in the sense of use of weapons of mass destruction. But I think that both the West and the Chinese (since Putin will meet with China leader in Uzbekistan) have very clearly to tell him that this is the last feature for them, when the line for the destruction and restart of this regime publicly begins. - After Russia has hit energy infrastructure, you made a post.
You write that “Russia should be recognized not only by a sponsor of terrorism, but by a terrorist state. Any other position is immoral. The next step should be the accusation of the regime of full -scale genocide with all the consequences - from political to economic. Now for the non -watery world, the one who presses the hand of the regime representative should be considered as a guide to the regime. We have to say the direct text of China, India and everyone else.
And the event should immediately recall ambassadors from Moscow. Please tell me why even after these infrastructure strokes there was no reaction you are writing about? Maybe I have not heard any warnings either from Washington or from the EU, that the red line was crossed? As far as I see from public statements, Russia is not going to recognize the state - a sponsor of terrorism. - The event (at least part of the event) wants to talk to Putin again and say, as they say, the last Chinese warning.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholt spoke to him. These signals are transferred to other channels. I believe that the recognition of Russia by the terrorist state will actually put it out of law, out of international law, will finally make it a state-park, and its leaders such that no one will give them a hand in principle. But when the state is declared by a terrorist, it is not only sanctions, not only control over the connection with this country-terrorist in other countries.
In the future, this is complete, I emphasize, the complete transfer of all arrested assets. States are still thinking how they can affect Russia's full stop with Russia as India and China. This discussion is still happening. As for me, the US administration should make a statement. This would go to our joint basket on the pressure on Russia, which once again-and then the question of the definition of Russia as a terrorist state is officially on the agenda.
I would actually expect such a statement from the US administration and would like to hear it very much. And as for diplomatic communications, I would like to leave at least a few ambassadors for consultation. It would also be a powerful signal. The Russians understand such signals. The US Ambassador and the EU Ambassador went a few days ago, but it was necessary to take another next step. In this, I think the West did not reach.
- Intentions are voiced about even greater support of Ukraine not after Putin makes another act of terrorism, namely after the victories of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the battlefield. - I agree. I think that the event and much of the event still thinks that it will return Putin to the Russian borders and will control it there. We try to explain to them that this will not be.
It is necessary to publicly, not publicly start purposeful strategic work on restarting this regime, which is a criminal revanchist regime and cannot be part of the international community. So far, there is no consensus in the West on such purposeful work, but with each of our offensive, as in Kharkiv, with each of our success in the Russian regime, the event begins to believe in its own strength.
And in this sense, we are for the event - a driver, if you want - an energyizer, in order to believe in his own strength and came out of this anabiosis; I realized that it was a threat and its existence, democratic values as such. This awareness is increasing, but it grows too slowly.
- After the counter -offensive in Kharkiv region, a well -known historian and journalist Anne Epplbaum wrote in her atlantics column that the event should be prepared for the victory of Ukraine and by the end of Putin's regime. Please tell me, what does the event mean to prepare for the victory of Ukraine? What are the obligations to the West? - The victory of Ukraine means the end of the Russian regime [in the form] as we now have it. This means restarting of today's Russia.
Everyone understands that it will be a frantic achievement for the world, as one of the greatest dangers that is in this world will be taken away. I consider Russia today the greatest danger. Yes, there is a call of China. But China has a political bureau as in the Soviet Union. There are wise people who gather and make well -made decisions. We sometimes do not like these solutions, we have different values, but these solutions can be predicted, we can understand.
And in Russia today is actually dictatorship. This is no longer an authoritarian state. And a dictatorship where one person makes all key solutions. Therefore, in the West, the realization that Russia is the greatest and immediate threat to the Western world and humanity. Absolutely agree with Anne, who wrote in the column that you need to calculate the risks of restarting this mode. Many problems and challenges will fall on us.
I am no longer talking about controlling nuclear weapons, I do not talk about possible migration flows, about possible total destabilization of very large space . . . This is a tendency for preparation for the future. And with each of our success, such trends will intensify.
- I often ask: how do they see the defeat of Russia in the West? Some are very honest and frankly answered: in the West, they do not have an idea, as it can continue, because it is unknown what Russia will look like, and Russia is a nuclear state. And that is why there is no common consensus, which means the event of the overthrow of the Putin regime and how to respond to it. - Absolutely. In the West, not only there is no common position, a consensus that would unite the event.
As you can see, there is no public discussion, it is conducted at the level of individual experts. Many politicians are simply afraid to start this discussion openly, they are afraid of Putin's reactions and reactions inside, as they will say that you are tightening such new risks! But I think that it is necessary to prepare consistently for the fact that this Russia will be restarted, it will happen. And these risks, of course, will fall on us, as Russia is near us. We are not afraid of anything.
Our mission is to learn first, and then to teach the event not to be afraid and to understand that the problem does not need to be repelled, put somewhere in the drawer, as much of the event did all these years, trying to negotiate with Putin on some new and new conditions through concessions, compromises for the sake of compromises. And only now part of the event realizes that it is a path to nowhere, which will actually destroy the event.