The People's Deputy from the faction of the servant of the people Andriy Klochko, the chairman of the committee on organization of state power, registered a bill, which may interfere with the competition for the election of the Director of the National Anti -Corruption Bureau and will allow to take on the hook of the heads of all anti -corruption bodies. In the explanatory note, he argues innovation by the fact that anti -corruption bodies "do not demonstrate efficiency".
Video of the day, the People's Deputy Klochko himself is a person involved in the SAP investigation: the case was opened after a journalistic investigation, which found that in two years of Clochko's deputy, his relatives were acquired by a collection of real estate, and a 70-year-old mother acquired an expensive Tesla electric car.
Elena Tribushna, the editor-in-chief and presenter of the YouTube channel, have a question with the People's Deputy from Voice Yaroslav Yurchyshyn on these and other topics. The interview was recorded a few days before August 22, a constituent meeting of the NABU Director was elected.
- What is happening to the director of the National Anti -Corruption Bureau? I understand so, we have just "wrapped up" the story with a competition for the head of the Specialized Anti -Corruption Prosecutor's Office with such efforts - and now begins its repetition with the competition at NABU? - After the head of the SAP was appointed in July, Denis Shmigal, the head of government, instructed the first meeting of the commission to select the NABU Director.
For several weeks, this commission has not been sitting. This, of course, raised the question, because both the President and all representatives of the authorities promised Ukrainian society that as soon as we choose the head of the SAP - we will start a competition for the NABU Director.
But it became clear that another independent commission, where international experts have a decisive voice, is an unacceptable phenomenon for the leadership of our country, and therefore creating conditions that will allow to block the competition or reconcile and start the procedure from the beginning, that is to create a commission on -Oh. The deputy Klochko is a completely man of the Presidential Office.
It is known that his relatives have strange property - he wrote a lot on his mother and does not explain where she came from. He has registered a bill that changes the requirements for the candidate for the position of NABU Director. The change itself is not logical, but what is created in this way? This creates a precedent, grounds for restarting the competition - that is, you can restart the commission, again long approval, again the procedure.
And most importantly, an additional basis for the dismissal of the NABU head is introduced - provided that it appears an administrative decision to engage in corruption. I would like to remind you that at one time the Minister [Internal Affairs Arsen] Avakov thus tried to "knock down" Artem Sytnik, falsifying through our imperfect judicial system of its entry into the register of corrupt officials. A similar mine is laid under the next director.
There is already a requirement that a person who has a decision to be corrupted in the field of corruption cannot claim the head of the bureau. This is quite logical. But to falsify such a decision in the process of NABU Director's activity is easy enough, we already had a precedent. Thus creating the possibility of removing a new director is the purpose of the Presidential Office. Therefore, we have the same rake.
Now there is a great chance to knock this law before its consideration, but the fact that it is registered by a person who is very clearly affordable with the President's office - I understand that here the ears [deputy head of Oleg Oleg] Tatariv stick. It does not give him a rest, which has not yet been closed on it. Of course, there is now a great opportunity to investigate it in the collaboration of NABU and the SAP, but as we can see, everything is being done so that this does not happen.
- I wanted to ask: this is your own initiative of Klochka or order from above, because in the Klechka itself is also open to the SAP? - Definitely, this is not the person who will do something on his own initiative. Something motivated by some "donors" is quite realistic. But in this case, it is a very sensual business, a very sensual direction. It is clear that this bill is not registered with some more public or authoritative "servant of the people", because it can be publicly scraped.
Therefore, such a person was found to lay a mine under the competition for the position of NABU director. This bill has one author, because if [President Vladimir] Zelensky, as he repeatedly emphasized, has the goal of promptly holding an independent competition - he can simply appeal to this deputy and offer to withdraw the bill before consideration by the Committee.
If the committee will force the consideration - it is likely that it will be another confirmation that the President's office for the blessing of the first persons, that is, [head of OP Andrew] Yermak and Zelensky, is trying to undermine the independence of anti -corruption infrastructure again. - They failed to choose the character, because with his corruption business, with apartments, with his mother Tesla, he is now publicly accurate, and this will be a very loud story.
What committee should this bill go through? - There is a very interesting name - about some changes in competitions for public positions. It is logical that this law was preparing for the Civil Service Committee, that is, for the Committee, where Klochko himself is the chairman. He should definitely get the conclusion of the Anti -Corruption Committee - and he should be negative.
But again, let's see what will be the instruction by the President's Office "Servants of the People", which make up the majority in our committee. - If it is still taken to the hall, they will quickly be put to the vote - the competition will not begin before this law is not adopted? - It is likely that, under other circumstances, all decisions of the competition commission can be easily denied due to the change of requirements.
If the competition is held to a position and the requirements for the position change, then the competition does not make sense in principle. Any contestant will be able to challenge it very easily because he was chosen with the same requirements, and now others. - Have the contestants already served? - No, but the competition began. Again, here is the question of the coherence of the actions of different wings of the Zelensky team.
We already had the question why on July 19, the Schmigal at the highest level is instructed to organize a meeting of the commission - and two weeks cannot be done? Despite the fact that the meeting of the commission can be organized online. Why wasn't conducted, why didn't they start? Because they were looking for options, how to announce the attempt to hold a competition and not to do so.
- If they go this way, if you do not manage to knock this law and the competition will run under the new procedure later - will we have time to appoint a NABU director for the new year? And will it be a machine gun that one of the seven conditions of our candidate status [in the EU] is torn? - If there is a restart of the competition, then by the new year we will definitely not have time.
I do not even take the two -year competition for the post of SAP head, but at least a quarter is required to hold such a competition - if there are no sticks in the wheels and in peacetime. Now, in the conditions of war, to spend four months remaining by the end of the year, a competition at the rate at which it is currently held - two weeks are not going to the commission - I have big issues. Indeed, will we have time for the term promised by the President? Probably not.
- If you name things by their names, they were unable to put a controlled person on the anti -corruption prosecutor's office, so they want to try it from NABU so that at least one of the anti -corruption organs is under control of them, and this actually makes the whole system incapacitated again. - Exactly. This is a key conclusion that follows. Realizing that they could not break the competition for the head of the SAP, they try to break the competition for the post of NABU head.
- And there was no reactions from our Western partners? - The official reaction, I think, will be in the near future, because it is a very sensitive topic. And the main reason why it was thrown through an odious MP - because it is always possible to make that I am not me and the house is not mine. That is, to say that it is our own initiative of deputies, Bla-blah-blah-and play this map: "What can we do, we have a parliament independent body.
" I know that there is already unofficial reaction and communication by our international partners. Currently, this is a request - what is the initiative, where she came from and why. But if this bill is not recalled, there will be official reactions. - In the explanatory note to this project Klochko argues the need to introduce the changes he proposes, that the system of anti -corruption bodies, they say, is ineffective. - And it says a person who is in a criminal case in the active phase.
It is quite ineffective, he felt directly! This is an absurdity. And again, he did not write it, of course. - What is happening to SAP now? For several weeks, a new head Alexander Klimenko has been appointed. Have you met him as members of the profile committee? What do you know about starting work there for a new manager? - I am familiar with him in his resonant affairs - [Roman] Nasirov, [Alexander] Onishchenko, Tatarova, but these are working contacts.
There are no other communications because I am convinced that with law enforcement agencies, deputies should communicate purely on working matters. We have not yet summoned Klimenko to the Committee for the report, as we need to start working time. From the operating challenges I know, now the SAP has the following: we have a small number of specialized prosecutors in combating corruption - just over 40, 12 of them voluntarily went to serve.
Moreover, they are effective enough and strong - it is [novel] Simkiv, it is the first deputy [Maxim] Grishchuk, and now there is a huge need to return them to fulfill their direct responsibilities. At one time, Venediktova [Exogen prosecutor Irina] has without problems signed permission for mobilization, although, to be honest, we, as a state, are more interested in doing their work.
Their effective work will make it possible to convince our international partners in targeted use of weapons, and logistical assistance, and the money they provide us-because there will be control by the anti-corruption bodies with the targeted use of these funds and resources. Now a big problem to turn them back.
Despite the fact that the law prohibits mobilizing them as civil servants, as law enforcement officers, they are already mobilized, and now, to return them, they may be needed, even changes to the law. At least four of these people want to stay on the front, despite our arguments why they should return. Eight of them now at a hot point, I will not talk where, and we need to return them. The question here is where they are more important and effective.
In fact, anti -corruption prosecutors should be in their workplace. Honor and praise to the guys who have taken the weapon at the hottest moment, but now there is someone to replace them there and there is no one to replace them here. Klimenko has the biggest problems that there are not enough staff and how to transfer things.
For example, the case of the same [Mykola] Martynenko is an old thing, it is a huge number of volumes of information, some of them received from the Czech Republic, Austria, and that it takes months or even years to enter the new person. We do not have this time, we need to show the result. Therefore, it is one of the biggest challenges that are now. I understand guys, we have the same challenges in the deputy corps.
Psychologically, you need to be there, but if you take responsibility to the state, you need to be here. It is always a gap, but there is a priority duty and must be fulfilled. And from the positive - things do not stop, are considered, move, new ones open. I am not ready to cite statistics now, but with the appointment of the SAP head, the number of NABU appeals to the SAP, especially in top officials, has increased.
Why? Because when the cases were immediately on the table of the Prosecutor General, namely, he performs the functions of the main anti -corruption prosecutor in the absence of the current SAP leader, the guarantees that these cases would not be poured, according to NABU detectives, was significantly less. Therefore, cases that did not need great promptness were delayed sometimes with the harm to the process, but most likely with the benefit of the result.
We now expect an increase in the number of cases that are investigated in NABU and accompanied by the SAP, so it is necessary to activate the SAP working staff as much as possible. Therefore, almost a quarter of a part of the SAP, which is fighting is a challenge for the structure.
Therefore, we urge the most quickly as possible to return the return of those who want to perform no less important responsibilities, because the fight against the anti -corruption front, especially for our international partners, is an indicator of how Ukraine is different from Russia. - For Ukrainians too. - There is no prophet in his Fatherland.
The biggest problem is that when the Ukrainian authorities are approached by the public, journalists, opposition with constructive steps, it is very often perceived in bayonets, like a policy, although there are no policies here. But when our international partners talk about it, then with creaking, with complexity, with a mouse cart, as this bill Klochka, but the changes are happening. That is why I emphasize international partners. But the authorities are more responsible to society.
And here it is very important that it is not a person who is now, as a deputy Klochko, writes that the investigation authorities are ineffective and let them create problems, but in fact to give the opportunity to work these bodies and show the result. - I hope it will happen. Finally. Once. - Let's do everything in our power.
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